誠徵: #記你老母 最強英文翻譯 Wanted: Epic awesome English translation for #記你老母

June 14, 2019

Have a watch of this footage of a Commercial Radio reporter being unjustly rough handled and threatened by Hong Kong police rough handling reporters in doing their jobs: #記你老母 錄影片段 (timecode 32s).

Also reported in this news article “【睇片】商台記者表明身份 仍遭揮警棍粗暴推撞 警:「記你老母!」” with link to original June 12, 2019 Commercial Radio 商台新聞’s Facebook video post.

FB user 劉仁顯 took time to create a FB profile frame tool for #記你老母 in which he translated “#記你老母” to “Port Your Mother”. While I thank the user for the effort, I think translating #記你老母 to “Port Your Mother” is a bit too polite and also incorrect.

Port-Your-Mother - Screen Shot 2019-06-14 at 9.44.48 AM - org - mod

X你老母 usually are curse words for “F*ck your mother!” (or simply “You Motherf*cker!”)

So #記你老母 really should include F-word or ”Motherf*cker” in it somehow. Anyway, the first work-in-progress translation I used was “Re… you Motherf*ckers!” Upon further considerations, I think the following are worth considering:
1) “You Jurnos Motherf*ckers”
2) “Jurnos Motherf*ckers”
3) Journof*cker (Note: “Jurnos” is of course short for journalists.)
4) JìNǐLǎoMǔ

(Note: JìNǐLǎoMǔ is probably the most Beijing & mainland Chinese friendly translation inspired by Hanami for 花見. The dictionary entry for JìNǐLǎoMǔ (記你老母) can give a detailed explanation plus a link to Commercial Radio 商台新聞’s Facebook video post for context and usage example by the brutal authority and inventor of the phrase 記你老母.)

*) Port Your Mother [HT 仁顯]
*) Journfucknalist [HT a friend]
*) “Report, your ass” [HT a friend]
*) “Remember Your Mother” [HT internet, this one is very HK 無厘頭 and cute in some sense]

14 June 2019 Update: Thanks to the super wise 蕭叔叔 for sharing his take. [HT Vivian] Here is 蕭叔叔’s video explaining his rationales for translating #記你老母 to “Reporter, my arse!”. (assuming Brits are saying it). Have a watch.

While I respect 蕭叔叔’s insights, I feel it a bit “too polite” and failed to matched the tone of the unjustly violent policeman.

Imagine a “super big mean” English speaking Hollywood actor playing the role of the unjustly violent policeman saying the line “Reporter, my arse!” Sorry to be frank, I would laugh and NOT feel threaten at all as if Mr. Bean himself was threatening me!

Here lies a general translation challenge of how a culture say certain things. 蕭叔叔 wisely restricted his observation to the Brits. As a further aside, which I hope is illuminating, base on my limited understanding of Japanese people, they are exceedingly polite so their common curse words are like telling people they are “stupid” (in Cantonese, it sounds like 8+26)! And dare I say, “stupid” is NOT exactly a strong curse words in most cultures! In Canada and US, etc, people regularly use versions of the f-word, Motherf*cker, etc when cursing. So, to me, the Brits way of “Reporter, my arse!” is rather inadequate for HongKongers’ X你老母 or the unjustly violent policeman’s #記你老母!

Based on the above and other news video footages, unjustified violence have been deployed against many journalists trying to record and report on facts. So the words #記你老母 don’t feel like one off isolated incidents but feel like part of a “general declaration of war against journalists” reporting on the 2019 Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests.

At this moment, I’m leaning to translate #記你老母 as “You Jurnos Motherf*ckers”. Feel free to share your ideas and suggestions in how to better translate #記你老母!

14 June 2019 Update #2: By the way and on the fun aside, my favourite open/unsolved grand translation challenge remains 「撒嬌」有沒有英譯 since I read a 2009 article. I haven’t yet given up.

The ultimate solution for 「撒嬌」 may end up being something I got inspired by Hanami (Japanese 花見), just coin a word for it. I know it is a “cheat” but a perfect cheat has some merits right?

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六四30周年 #Tiananmen30 #June4 #六四

June 3, 2019

2019 June 5th update: Ming Pao (with video), “【六四30年.短片】「天安門母親」成員張先玲講話全文

“今日(4日)是六四事件30年,也是一眾「天安門母親」在被監視下生活的30年,支聯會六四燭光悼念集會上播放「天安門母親」群體成員講話短片。以下是成員張先玲在北京所發表的講話。

尊敬的香港同胞們:
尊敬的歷年來從世界各地趕來參加維園燭光晚會的有良知的朋友們:

我們代表「天安門母親」群體向你們致以最崇高的敬意和衷心的感謝!

三十年來,維園的燭光陪伴著「天安門母親」們走過了坎坷的歷程,溫暖着我們的心!

天安門慘案已經過去了三十年。但那個血腥的夜晚,北京上空激烈的槍聲、坦克的橫衝直撞、穿梭的救護車、市民們為了保護學生對戒嚴部隊視死如歸的沿途攔截、鼎沸的人聲以及親人們最後的身影,至今,我們記憶猶新,永遠定格在我們的腦海裏,深深地刻在我們的心底。

我們痛苦過、悲傷過,如今巨大的悲痛已化為支撐我們抗爭的動力!

這樣血腥的慘案,和平時期動用軍隊在中國歷史上絕無僅有!劊子手們將永遠被釘在歷史的恥辱柱上,決不是一句輕鬆的「政治風波」就能夠抹去!更不是所謂「動亂」「暴亂」就可以作為軍隊鎮壓的理由,這樣的謊言是掩蓋不了血寫的事實!

三十年來,「天安門母親」群體不畏強權,櫛風沐雨、砥礪前行。追尋遇難者的蹤跡,為的就是要討還公道,就是要說出真相、拒絕遺忘、呼喚良知,尋求正義!

雖然這三十年來,我們找到的遇難者只是冰山一角,但僅此一角已能證明「六四」鎮壓的殘酷!這樣一次由執政黨主導、政府下令,調動大批野戰軍乘著裝甲車、軍車、坦克,真槍實彈,在首都街頭殺害手無寸鐵的、和平示威的學生和市民!這是甚麼行為?是不折不扣的草芥人命!殺人者竟是國家的正規軍!這是政府指使下的殺人!是國家的犯罪!

三十年來,「天安門母親」們本着和平、理性的原則,堅持:真相、賠償、問責三項訴求,多次就「六四」慘案通過法律解決向政府提出對話,但執政當局一直不敢面對,不敢回答。卻在公開場合用一句「黨和政府已有定論。」的囈語,作為遁詞。這樣一件在全世界眾目睽睽之下發生的慘案,豈是少數領導人一句話就能將事實抹殺掉的。歷史證明:真相終將戰勝謊言,正義必將戰勝邪惡!

雖然,「天安門母親」群體中已有五十六位難屬離去。但我們活著的人,將一如既往,承擔起逝者的責任,不管路有多崎嶇,我們將奮力向前!

感謝香港市民和朋友們對我們的支持!”

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BBC 中文網:

1) 六四30周年:被消失的坦克人照片,

2) 曾奉命前往北京執行戒嚴任務的李曉明

[HT StandNews, BBC 記者問民眾有否看過坦克人照片 北京市民:這是國外坦克,不是中國]


達明一派《回憶有罪》

June 1, 2019

I searched for and bought my copy of 達明一派 (Tat Ming Pair)《回憶有罪》 when it became available on iTune to support them. Consider supporting them yourself. If in our dark hours honourable & creative artists like them don’t get our support to voice our feelings, then we can’t blame anyone else when no one else are left to express our views and feelings

Here is a 達明一派《回憶有罪》官方MV

Lyrics:

//達明一派 回憶有罪

舊日或問天 怎允許摧毀信念
浩蕩像為了 被懷念
現在別問他 可有膽公開紀念
被現實騎劫 怎怨天

如燭光都有罪 將暗黑多幾十年 Read the rest of this entry »


Thought Experiment = 思想實驗? Is there a better translation? How about 假想實驗?

May 29, 2019

I love interesting and challenging translation question like “「撒嬌」有沒有英譯 ?” which I shared 10 years ago with some thoughtful comments under it that worth checking out. Now as I was looking for a Chinese translation for “Thought Experiment“, a quick check with Google Translate got me “思想實驗”. You see, there is even a Chinese Wikipedia entry for “思想實驗” if you click 中文 (Chinese) (on the left column) along the English Thought Experiment Wikipedia entry.

Now, I don’t like Thought Experiment being translated as “思想實驗” even it seems to be the “accepted norm” given Google Translate (widely used by people) and the formidable Chinese Wikipedia entry for “思想實驗”.

Translating “Thought Experiment” as “假想實驗”

I don’t know if anyone else has translated this earlier but I found in the “譯海泅泳-原文是海,語文素養是泳技” Facebook page a fascinating post “thought experiment 是甚麼東西? ” that detailed the author’s insightful analysis (see below included post).

After reading the cool analysis, I tend to agree with the author and think that “假想實驗” is quite a good translation for “Thought Experiment”. Now, having said that, I’m afraid the tide of “Computational Translation”, “Machine Translation“, and “Machine-Aided Human Translation (MAHT)” are over taking us humans who are more “expert” or have better “taste” in translating. As more and more people are getting or suggested with “思想實驗”  by the likes of Google Translate and Chinese Wikipedia, I’m afraid the linguistic tide is drowning us with mediocre existing translation and they will soon become the norm too strong to ignore.

I hope I’m wrong and I will try to insist using “假想實驗” for “Thought Experiment” but then I’m a rebel. Lots of other English or Chinese speakers won’t even have second thoughts in using “思想實驗”

Again, I will keep using “假想實驗” for “Thought Experiment” and I hope you will too.

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thought experiment 是甚麼東西? (Facebook link) – 譯海泅泳-原文是海,語文素養是泳技 October 4, 2015

(NOTE & Thanks: I acknowledge the original author of this post owns its copyright and thank the author’s contribution to the discussion. I include this full post here for completeness and ease of reading as I thought it extremely thoughtful and insightful. If the author doesn’t like to have the whole post included, I can excerpt portions of it according to “fair dealing/fair use” provisions of copyright law.)

thought experiment=想像實驗、思想實驗、思考實驗、思惟實驗、理想實驗、假想實驗、臆想實驗?
很多中文人口看到thought experiment這個詞,往往搞不懂這是甚麼東西(其實就算是英文人口,也有不少人無法一看就懂,因為這不是日常用語)。憑著大家所背單字的意思,一個「思想」,一個「實驗」–這是甚麼東西?這是因為我們只看到個別文字的意思,卻看不到文字背後真實情境的緣故。借用禪宗的話說就是,我們只看到指月的手,卻沒有看到手所指的月。用現在的話來說的話,這就是「去脈絡」的結果。探索事物而去脈絡,即無真相,即無實相可言。
thought experiment是運用思考,依據邏輯推理,在腦筋裡–在想像中–進行的實驗(見圖左、右上, 由左至右)。所以thought experiment不是在化學實驗室或粒子加速器實驗室進行的實驗,所以是一種非實體實驗。
史丹福哲學百科全書(Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)在”thought experiment”這個條目之下記述說:

Thought experiments are devices of the imagination used to investigate the nature of things. They are used for diverse reasons in a variety of areas, including economics, philosophy, and the sciences, especially physics. Most often, thought experiment are communicated in narrative form, frequently with diagrams. Thoughts experiments should be distinguished from the thinking about experiments, from merely imagining any experiments to be conducted outside the imagination, and from psychological experiments with thoughts. They should also be distinguished from counterfactual reasoning in general, as they seem to require an experimental element, which seems to explain the impression that something is experienced in a thought experiment.

這裡面說,thought experiments 是以想像力為器具,用以研究事物性質。又說,對於「實驗」一事的思考,或是純粹只是想像一項實驗實際(outside the imagination)在進行,都不是(“…should be distinguished from “) thought experiments; 心理學家以人的thought為實驗素材進行的實驗也不是thought experiments。
這樣,知道thought experiment是什麼東西,不是甚麼東西之後,那麼中文要怎麼翻譯呢?直譯為「思想實驗」嗎?意思並不清楚。英譯中的時候,很多英文詞彙或語句要是直譯,其譯文常常語意不詳或與原意差很多,這是大家都知道的。譬如,英文有個複合形容詞,叫作self-conscious。有的譯者望文生義,直譯為「自我意識的」或「自覺的」;並且由於單字意思都對,便認為self-conscious這樣翻譯是正確的。但接著卻發現「自我意識的」或「自覺的」和上下文意思兜不起來。這樣子,我們便知道self-conscious這個形容詞恐怕就不是我們想當然爾的「自覺的」、「自我意識的」了。這個英文形容詞的意思其實是「(因為知道別人對自己的看法或擔心別人不知道對自己有甚麼看法而導致的)害羞的,尷尬的,不好意思的」,另外一個意思是「(做事情時因為過於刻意或雕琢過度而導致)洩露意圖或行跡敗露的」—-你看,「自我意識的」、「自覺的」和這個意思差多少!
所以,從以上我們所列的七種譯法中,我們在這裡就先把「思想實驗」、「思考實驗」、「思惟實驗」三者排除。「理想實驗」自然不對。「臆想實驗」亦然—-除了語意不清楚之外,真正的thought experiment是不做「臆想」(猜測)的。這樣的話,就剩下「想像實驗」和 「假想實驗」兩個了。這兩者,我個人傾向「假想實驗」。我以為,若譯為「想像實驗」,一個文字理解上有問題,一個是並非一看就知道那是甚麼東西。前者,在中文裡,「想像」常做動詞用。那麼,「在想像實驗」會是甚麼意思就不清楚了。在這裡,我們需要名詞,但是這裡卻跑出一個像是動詞的東西。再者,我把這幾種譯法拿去問過三個人,請他們選看看哪一個「名詞」看了知道是甚麼東西。其中有兩人提出「假想實驗」,問我那是不是甚麼甚麼…講的正是thought experiment那一回事。所以,雖然我自己本來就譯成「假想實驗」,但是經過這樣的 poll 之後,我更加篤定要翻譯成「假想實驗」。
說到「假想實驗」,史上最有名的「假想實驗」莫過於「薛丁格的貓」(Schrödinger’s Cat)(圖右中)、「愛因斯坦的升降機」(Einstein’s Elevator)(圖右下)、「猴子與打字機」(Monkeys and Typewriters)(圖右下二)等幾個。筆者少年時代曾經看過一本講愛因斯坦相對論的概論書,是一本英譯中著作。其中提到愛因斯坦的「升降機」這項「假想實驗」。這是我平生第一次看到「假想實驗」這個詞彙,當時閱讀的感覺是毫無窒礙,並未有「那是甚麼東東?」的疑惑。「猴子與打字機」這個假想實驗背後的概念可以直溯到亞里斯多德的「無限次數的作用在無限時間之內幾乎一定會產生一切事物」這種說法,說「無限隻猴子在無限台打字機上隨意敲打,最後一定會在某個時候打出全本莎士比亞全集」。這個假想實驗相當有趣。原始進化論者主張生命的發生純屬偶然,是機率問題。反對此說者有的借用「猴子與打字機」這個假想實驗,計算出來說,一千隻猴子隨便(=偶然)在一千台打字機上敲打,恰好(=機遇)打出一部莎士比亞戲劇(有秩序的宇宙)的機率是一萬兆兆兆分之一;等於每十億個十億年才發生一次,但是我們這個宇宙到目前為止也才不過一百二十億年而已。「假想實驗」是個有趣的題目,有時間可以聊聊。

xxx


201903 最近看的紀錄片 Recently watched documentary

March 29, 2019

最近看的紀錄片 Recently watched documentary

10) (Trailer) Kusama: Infinity (2018) The Life and Work of Artist Yayoi Kusama (Kanopy) (Yayoi Kusama (草間 彌生)) Here you can find Miss O’Keeffe’s 1955 Dec 3th reply to Kusama in her own handwriting. #awesome

9) (Trailer) Sam Klemke’s Time Machine (Kanopy)

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Additional references

(#10) re Yayoi Kusama (草間 彌生)

PBS News, “Need to escape reality? Step into infinity with Yayoi Kusama

Louisiana Museum of Modern Art, Yayoi Kusama Interview: Earth is a Polka Dot

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文化沙龍 – 黃耀明:這個璀燦都市光輝到此?

February 26, 2019

【第十四講】黃耀明:這個璀燦都市光輝到此?

LOVE this talk by Anthony (黃耀明 Wong Yiu Ming)!


Jin Yong . Louis Cha:between the myth and the man (金庸.查良鏞--江湖與現實)

November 8, 2018

Nov 13, 2018 Update: Here is the video: 【第十一講】吳靄儀:金庸.查良鏞--江湖與現實

0:00 周保松’s Introduction
4:08 吳靄儀’s (Margaret) planned talk begin
11:35 Margaret mentions John Minford’s (English co-translator of 鹿鼎記 The Deer and the Cauldron) Ming Pao tribute “To Mark the Passing of Louis Cha” to 查良鏞
20:22 The world of 武林 is a bit cartoonish as killing has no consequences not unlike the world of Tom and Jerry.
29:34 金庸 re 功夫/芭蕾舞
35:40 金庸’s revisions including the 明河版 version
41:25 查良鏞’s book of editorials (1980-84)
52:50 Ming Pao as the only HK newspaper allowed in China
58:02 Cha’s decision of resigning as a 基本法草委
1:08:05 Margaret’s planned talk end
1:08:10 周保松’s comments
1:14:18 吳靄儀’s reply to 周保松’s comments
1:15:02 Beginning of Q&As
1:16:28 Cha’s business approach as a newspaper owner: “hard-nosed”, salary unfairness
1:20:23 區家麟’s question re “查良鏞曾經講過, 報紙是老闆的私器” How did Ming Pao reporters react internally?
1:22:20 to 1:26:06 新華社社長許家屯聲稱有人”不按本子辦事”. Cha wrote an editorial of which Margaret refuted point-by-point with her own 3000 – 4000 words articles.
1:40:45 The dubious practice of Cha “interviewing” himself
1:48:26 Cha’s own views and his possibly unintended/unplanned inspirations for his employees
1:55:45 Democracy is taken and never given (恩賜)
1:58:30 周保松 asks Margaret to share more as she read his fictions so many times and worked with him so closely.
2:02:10 Margaret talks about her creating the first political news section in HK newspapers (in Ming Pao) and she set its 政治新聞大綱
2:06:50 程翔’s comments (including what led to his 3 years imprisonment relating to a article written by 查良鏞)
2:20:44 吳靄儀’s discussion with 程翔
2:24:27 區家麟’s question for 程翔 re 查良鏞’s change of mind after being received by 鄧小平
2:24:35 程翔’s reply to 區家麟’s question
2:26:21 Margaret re 程翔的癡心
2:27:32 周保松’s comment re 金庸小說在大陸的出版
2:27:45 程翔’s comment re 中國新聞社(中新社)(”開小灶”=特別照顧的意思?). 專門為明報提供獨家新聞
2:29:03 Margaret’s concluding remarks
2:31:14 周保松 concludes the meeting with a reading from 神雕俠侶
P.S. Margaret, Thanks for sharing your insight. 保松, Thanks you and Brew Note for hosting. Ed, Thanks for processing and posting the video so quickly! The processing of the 143 minutes must have taken many hours even on a fast machine and the uploading must have taken many hours as well!

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I’m very much looking forward to the talk “Jin Yong . Louis Cha:between the myth and the man (金庸.查良鏞--江湖與現實)” by Dr. Margaret Ng (吳靄儀) hosted by Prof. P.C. Chow (周保松) this Saturday. I will post a link to the presentation when it is available. From the Facebook announcement

//Brew Note 文化沙龍第十一講
題目:金庸.查良鏞--江湖與現實
講者:吳靄儀
主持:周保松
日期:2018年11月10日(星期六)
時間:7:00-9:00pm
地點:北角堡壘街19號地下
(海報設計:林道群)//

I LOVE the story 保松 shared of Margaret’s original English title “Jin Yong . Louis Cha:between the myth and the man” came to the Chinese translated title of “(金庸.查良鏞--江湖與現實)” . Here is 保松’s amazing story and I quote,

“說點小故事。
金庸先生去世,我覺得要有一埸沙龍向他致敬。在香港,吳靄儀是不二之選。吳大狀寫過好幾本金庸小說專著,曾在《明報》工作多年,擔任過好幾屆立法會議員,對金庸和查良鏞皆知之甚深。
吳大状獲邀,一口答應。但她不懂中文輸入法,遂寄我一個英文題目:Jin Yong . Louis Cha:between the myth and the man,並叫我們隨意翻譯。
我和牛津大學出版社林道群先生商量了一下,我說,譯為「金庸與查良鏞:大俠耶?人耶?」如何?道群說,不如「金庸與查良鏞:江湖與現實世界」?我說,拿走「世界」如何?道群說好,於是有了這題目。
一小時不到,道群兄傳我海報第一稿,上面有個金庸和小龍女(陳玉蓮)的混合體,又大膽又過癮。我多事,提了個小建議,請他在上面加幾筆水墨,造個江湖出來。一小時後,道群傳我第二版,最後還加了一個英文版。
道群兄的書籍設計(董橋、北島、余英時、章怡和、趙越勝等)早已名滿天下,大家現在也可以欣賞欣賞他的海報。”

As I noted in my comment, “Thanks for sharing the back story! I love the precision in Margaret’s original English title and the poetic (and toned down) translated Chinese title.”

P.S. Here you see the English and Chinese promotional posters being placed side by side.

(designer:林道群先生) Jin Yong . Louis Cha:between the myth and the man (金庸.查良鏞--江湖與現實)

(designer:林道群先生) Jin Yong . Louis Cha:between the myth and the man (金庸.查良鏞--江湖與現實)

I love the placement of the English text “between the myth and the man” in a vertical form underneath the divider of “Jin Yong” and “Louis Cha”, I wish similar symmetry can be echoed in the Chinese version. I like the use of a separate colour of some of the text in the Chinese poster (although I haven’t decided on which of the text) and would love to see the Chinese version also use an additional colour.

Overall, two lovely posters and very nice Chinese translated title all done by volunteers in very short time! I can’t wait to watch the recorded video when it is available! Many thanks to Margaret, 保松, and his wonderful team of awesome volunteers! I hope I will have the luck to attend Brew Note 文化沙龍 one of these days when I visit HK!

2018 Nov 11th update: //I’m still part way through watching the following HKTDC 2006 video of 金庸先生 answering some very good questions. In some answers, we can see “Jin Young the myth” (borrowing Margaret’s words) explaining/excusing his own new revisions.

In one of his answers, he refused a questioner’s earnest request of publishing the original newspaper editions of his fictions. The host even “cutely” (some may argue rudely/ignorantly) analogized the request as something akin to “問瘦身之後的女士, 攞瘦身之前嘅相” (something similar). I wished 金庸先生 had not minded letting newer readers read his original works (newspaper editions) for enjoyment/study. But 金庸先生 DID (at least as I understood or twisted it) implicitly allowed/even encouraged people to find and pirate his newspaper editions to read themselves!//

香港書展2006: 金庸與讀者座談會 (回顧)

xxx